CONVERSIONS
THEORY VS PRACTICE; BUY A 280 LWB G WAGEN [IS THIS ALSO KNOWN AS A 463?] ALSO BUY A 500S MERC.TAKE THE 500S ENGINE AND BOX AND TRANSPLANT INTO THE G WAGEN,SIMPLE AS THAT,RIGHT
SO MY QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE GEARING OF THE 280 AXLES AND CAN THESE BE UPRATED TO TAKE THE INCREASE IN POWER? [SPEED NOT TORQUE]
WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS?
IS THE TRANSPLANT PRINCIPLE PRACTICAL?
NICK
P.S.I DON'T PLAN TO USE OFF ROAD.
A 280 is a 460. The conversion can be done with relative ease if you have the time and a good knowledge of doing work like this type in say a landrover product.. However the gearing is all wrong for the road. The ideal diff to use would be from a G350TD but at £450 a pop its dear. You can gain a bit by sticking large wheels and tyres but the best your gonner get is 10MPG if your lucky.
Buying an old s class on ebay is a good bet, you can buy the engine mounts of the shelf and the rest is a bit of giggiling.
Good luck.
A 350GTD is a 463 series g wagen that never landed on these shores. It was a 6 pot 3.5 turbo diesel short stroke engine. Because of the storke and the turbo they needed to ensure the engine wasn't revving at high speeds so the diffs were at a ratio that suited the engine. I am not sure what the ratio is but Mortinson is the man to ask.
The engine mounts you need are for the 91 G500. However I know someone that modified range rover ones to fit.
The 560 is the same block as the 500 but there is something like 70BHP difference, again something Mortinson can tell you as I am not as anal in that dept. The diffs and T box will cope with the 500 or the 560 no problem. Either will slot in no problem, some have raised body 2 inches to make it easier to work on etc.
You will need the auto box from the s class to cope with torque. You cant put in a rover v8 as the crank turns the opposite way to the merc.
You can put a Rover V8 in there is an adapter kit with a one to one gearing as standard that can be tailored to suit your needs, but it,s not cheap.
Pete,
thank you for update on g350s presumably you still need these IF you go for a rover or merc engine.Bill do you know where you get the adapter from for a rover V8 engine?Can you use the rangerover engine and box or do you need to stick with the merc gear box ?
Cheers
Nick
To put a Rover engine in a GWagen would be a sacrilege. Just like farting in the Sixtine Chapel. As a good catholic I cannot condone such discussions in our forum so please refrain from discussing that again.
The 350 GDT/G350 TD used the 4.111 (37/9) axles which were also fitted to some 463s 300 GDs (the rest had 4.375 (35/eight) axles). What I don't know is how the fact that the axles in the 463 turn in the opposite direction as they do in the 460. Would the crown and pinion be interchangeable? I would say so based on the fact that Tony Baskill fitted the diffs off a 350 GDT into a 280 GE but I am not entirely sure.
To learn about GWagen types, I always recommend Arndt Goetz's page:
(currently down for unknown reason, but try later)
Cheers
Thanks for advice Jesus,
Merc transplant it is then!!!! I guess you are a passionate man about mercs[ aswell as the cistene chapel] and as such which engine would you transplant into a lwb 280 to give it more speed [not going off road]and where do i get hold of 350 diffs?
Cheers
Nick
P.S.I've used a 3.5l range rover engine for 10 years now ; good top speed ,acceleration ,torque and so reliable i can't fault it as its never let me down.I won't swear again.
Nowt wrong with a good Chevy engine or was it Olds or Dodge, cant remember now but I seem to recall we swopped them for something, I remeber now, we gave them the Merlin Engine they gave us an old Chevy block, or some thing like that.
Its the seventeen Chapel now..... Inflation
Seriously tho J the axles on a 460 or 463 rotate in the same direction. forward or back. its the prop shafts that are different. 460 front and rear contra rotate (no transfer diff)
463 rotate in unison.(transfer diff) so if you fit a 463 transfer you would need to change the front diff because the pinion drives the other side of the crown wheel. the diff casing is the same and fits the axle housing.
Chapter eighteen.
Well not sure what's going on here now, there seems to be a slight digression first it's religion now you've raised the stakes and over' inflated 'the whole thread.I can only assume that the tory brigade has moved onto the thread inflation being their middle name.Thanks for top tips please don't take offence i'm sure you're no tory however if you are you'll be feelin a bit blue.......
cheers
green newbie nick :wink:
Don't mind us . we are bonkers.
Speak for yourself, Mr. Moss.
p.s. "Tut" pin on its way, you'll be pleased to know.
Q
This engine any good for you?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10398&item=4548...
Think it was Buick Bill, as in P5B, when they stuck it in the P5 Rov**
Thanks Varn. that should get my mower round the lawn.
Thanks Mike. tut thingy is on its way to you.
[quote "Quercus"]Speak for yourself, Mr. Moss.
p.s. "Tut" pin on its way, you'll be pleased to know.
Tut pin arrived, thanks, did you get your thingy?
Bill
Not yet, but I WAS advised of a mystery package which the PO would not deliver 'cos there was't any postage paid on it! :shock:
I'll pick it up in Andover tomorrow and let you know if 'tis your "tut"
tut! tut!
ta! ta!
Mike
Sorry mike I did put a stamp on it, I will refund you what ever it cost.
Got it Bill. Many thanks; just the job; already screwed in!
Thanks for the cap too. Don't worry about the postage. I think the stamp came off, 'cos I could see where it had been.
Cheers,
Mike :D
JD. Roger, Over. Mike
Well,i've been out of the loop for a while,however i now own a 230 GE with a 280 engine out of a merc SL or SE,not sure which but Alan Gibson can speak up and let you all know what on earth he did to my motor!So far 20+mpg and this baby shifts it really is the business so publicly Alan ,THANK YOU.It has however got bad vibrations,i lost three out of the five wheel nuts, front wheel, on the way home! [NOT Alan's fault] lucky escape.Inspection tomorrow on the ramp and work through the ''good vibrations'' sheet of troubleshooting front rear props etc etc etc..........All who contributed to the'' chapel of thought''[see previous posts] THANK YOU.I'm one happy camper.Now i think i saw a lwb for sale somewhere.............. :lol:
Thanks Nick ,Glad you are pleased with your G . for anyone interested we used the 280e saloon car engine ( 187 BHP ) with all the relevant bits from my surplus 280GE parts from Big Blue mated it onto a 5 speed box and installed it into Nicks old 230 , the result was pleasantly surprising , an ideal conversioin for those who want to retain the 280 GE spec but want a bit more power , and resonable economy as the extra power helps out on the open road. There is a lot of work involved in swapping the 230 for the 280 mainly in the wiring and swapping manifolds etc , the wiring is mre basic but you have to remove the original 230 ECU and rework the wiring to suit , its a right pain !!!!!! . Allan
so does this mean you wont do another one???
You could have used the one I converted as a pattern, I beleave you turned it in to a pickup for somone, How did you get rid of the heat, that has allways been the challenge in putting a 280 Saloon engine in to a G, The brake and clutch master over heat from the manifold temps and cavitate the fluid causing brake and clutch failure.
Great, now you tell him. I think he was on his way down the french alps towing a caravan just after his last post!!!!!!!
Hi all , No Peter we would be happy to do another one if we can get enough bits , its just a pain like many things in life , its no fun if its too easy... Bill , had a problem with under bonnet heat in Big Blue when it was a 280GE , regularly the engine run very warm due to a faulty viscous fan and mud choked lower section of radiator , it would nomally run at 3/4s offroad to just below boiling at times but I have never had any problem with brake fluid temps etc even then , I then replaced the viscous and with the new winch bumper setup allowing access to clean lower section of radiator which I had recored with a more up to date style,the 280 would run at 1/4 to 1/2 temp all day long even on the likes of the Argyll Challenge 2 years ago , now that its diesel with home brewed turbo it stays consistantly at 1/2 on and off road , I have had brakes go low offroad at times but this has been down to ingress of crap in rear drums usually killing the handbrake by the end of the day ( we get in some really big holes up here at times) My 280 had all the original heatshields on the manifold which probably helped and in Nicks I used a large core radiator from a 300 GD I had kicking around , Im sure Nick will let us know how he gets on with his , hope this is of some help. Cheers Allan
No overheating probs yet.I was considering fitting a kenlowe fan at some point,is there enough room?Also lpg on the cards so will prob get both done at the same time.
I have all the partsd for LPG for 280, except tank. Get twin 12" fans for the 280, they fit snug between rad and grill.
Hi Nick , I have tank from Black 280 , mounts behind back seat though , Give us a ring if any interest
Peter,my number is 07976041444 would like to buy lpg kit,tanks not a problem as want to fit underneath and available at local garage.Will have to just check he's ok with fitting your kit rather than his........?Nick
mine is a lando renzi, if I remember.
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Peter,
Thanks for tips but what is a G350TD?Have done shed loads of landrover stuff over the years and love the fannying around upgrading bits and bobs.So do you know if there is any diffence in the engine and gearbox mounts of the 500SE and the 500SL.Is there a best merc model to go for to reduce the fiddling about stuff i.e don't want to put in an engine that is too tall for the bonnet and yes i've done that ; a series one landie wasn't too much of a problem cut and shut and had a" muscle bonnet" kind of look......cheers