Is the INEOS a G ?

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Jdring
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What do we think of the INEOS Grenadier?  An engineering led vision of a utilitarian 4x4.

It looks very Land Rover-ish.  It has ladder frame and beam axles.  It got design expertise from Magna in Austria.

Personally, I like the idea of a modern day re-think of the 4x4.  Leveraging lessons learned and modern materials and design.  So why does it look the same and will it compete with a G ?  Will the manufacture come close to MB G standards?  Will the components stand the test of time, or reveal a host of lessons-not-learned issues?

https://youtu.be/bUSUAdPpr14

 

OldEnglish68
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

"No electronics"

Count me in!

It's a shame it looks SO much like the old Defender - at first glance I could believe it was a built-under-license continuation (Fiat/Lada or Morris/Hindustan anyone?) but maybe for this vehicle it's a good thing marketing-wise?

I watched this video and another one after. Neither references the G Wagen, which must be "on purpose" too...

If they build a SWB version, they may find me knocking at their door - especially if it's an EV :-)  !!

prwales
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Would the new Suzuki Jimny be a better option, bigger than before but still cute, less of a gamble than Ineos 

Jdring
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?
Very true. I do like the Jimny. Like a baby G. A useable workhorse too. Not a heavyweight, but versatile. My worry with the Grenadier is all the teething troubles it may have, without a real life manufacturer behind it. No dealership network etc. And with so many people having the same reservations, it may not take off.
Nick123
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?
I really do hope it takes off. Team INEOS seems to be approaching the Grenadier project professionally and seriously. Using proven running gear and a commitment to straightforward quality I would be much more interested in the Grenadier than a current so called Defender (beefed up Discovery?) with its 85 computers. Computers plus sand plus water plus mud? Hmmm... I don't think so!
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

I love the idea of the Grenadier. In fairness, I also think they're way behind where they claim to be in the development. All the videos are renderings, not footage of the actual car. 

 

 

bigblock
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Stuckmojo wrote:

I love the idea of the Grenadier. In fairness, I also think they're way behind where they claim to be in the development. All the videos are renderings, not footage of the actual car.

 

I watched this video and assumed it was a real car but then I watched it again after reading your post and looking at the obscured windows I think you are correct. I imagine it won't be long before it will be impossible to tell what is a real and what is a fake video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJguNBmlvuo

prwales
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

The Ineos Grenedier is being reviewed on Auto Mundial, next Sunday morning on ITV 4 at 6.50 am

mikemike39
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

As well as a 2008 LHD G Wagon, we also have a Jimny  - a year old, so the current model.    I think they've stopped selling them as there will be no more coming into the UK due I think to "fleet average" emissions fines.   It's great but very very small.

Fantastic review here by Andrew St Pierre White - who has some great overland trip videos on youtube also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK3363tzmyE

I'm keen on the Ineos.    I'd prefer a Toyota engine rather than BMW but you can't have everything.    They've got some experienced firms involved in the engineering.   Like Jdring I fear teething troubles.

Mike

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Does it have locking diffs?

Started off with initial price of about 28k, now over 40k, I fear too expensive for most farmers, Utility companies etc?

Will be very hard to break into the pick up  market, 

Also have a new Jimny, traction is very impressive,  seems very quick compared with my 463   300d, tho not as stable!

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

"Re: Is the INEOS a G ?"

Depenandant on what your definition of a "G" is.

The "G" is an abbriviation of Geländer which has several meanings, one of those is "rails" - I suppose the association here is the ladder frame of the vehicle? Originally, I was told by a German it meant Cross-country vehicle.

Given that, then the Ineos is a "G" as is a Land Rover and other Cross-country off road vehicles.

In essence to your question it is not a "G" as in G-Wagen. It could be a formidable off roader but currently I have some questions put out to the company for more technical details.

Ineos is no 'micky mouse' company, it has petro-chemicals background having over £60 Billion turnover.

In 2017 it was nominated as UK's most profitable private company, it has patnered with Magna on the technical devlopments of the chassis and with BMW for the twin turbo petrol and diesel power plants and investing £600,000 towards bringing the vehicle to the Market place. 

They are concurrently, working on double cab, tippers and flatbed versions.

I hope this posting does not flood requests to the company but those of you wishing to get behind the Gernadier's wheel can register at the link below:

https://ineosgrenadier.com/register 

 

Nick123
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?
There are some who suggest that the current BMW engines B57 and B58, inked in to the Grenadier build, are as good as the legendary Mercedes 606 powerplants.
prwales
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

A huge conglomerate assembled out of sell offs & bankrupcies & strategic partnerships, each company is separate from the next so this limits its vulnerabilities. Prime concers are chemical & petrochemical, given the bosses history I'd guess some of his financing is from the USA. 

JASONGDS
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Nick123 wrote:
There are some who suggest that the current BMW engines B57 and B58, inked in to the Grenadier build, are as good as the legendary Mercedes 606 powerplants.

Though are they reliable,? thought BMW not doing well in reliability tests?

For everyday driver  sure engine choice is fine, for abuse in outback etc, perhaps Iveco,or Toyota might have been a better choice 

Nick123
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?
PRW: Valid points but I remain optimistic. Jason: The B57 and B58 appear to be reliable workhorses although I will forever be nervous about too much electrickery. It's almost always what fails first these days. IVECO would make sense, I do agree. I'm no corporate lawyer but I cannot see Toyota encouraging any potential opposition.
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

I am on the fence regarding electronics.   The days of a mechanical only engine have passed.  Even those have crank position sensors, oils temp sensors etc.

And I am mostly amazed at the robustness of integrated circuits. For something so small and complex.  OK, water is a no-no, but vibration, heat, etc is all good.   Keep the electronics dry and its as reliable as a conrod or bearing.

Improvements are needed in engine management software though(ECU).  There should always be an override.  even if it is one which you keep having to set every 100 miles (to avoid permanent overrides of trivial or non-trivial issues).

Even limp mode is not acceptable when you are stuck working/far away, unless it really is an issue that would damage the engine without it.

 

 

 

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Also, will have to have ABS, Air bags? For type approval?  Most customers will want these.

Traction Control,  all really useful. 

Think the new Defender,  just ridiculous with all the electrics,  and so far don't seem to be glitch free.

Unsure when euro  7 kicks in?  Sure Bmw on top of that,  but think of all the extra stuff for that?

Interested to see if it actually gets off the ground   ,a lot of talk at the moment. 

 

prwales
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Well it was on briefly but no engine details, no interior shots or of the engine bay, the new Defender looks something else though

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

So the Ineos is definitely doing to be built in a French factory. Ex-Mercedes at least.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-9031209/Sir-Jim-Ratcllffe...

Well Daimler - which is even more synergy with the G heritage.  And this way they get economies of scale because the factory gets to make the EQ Smart Car too - and access to battery tech for when the Ineos goes electric, which it must.

Leave aside the pros and cons of Brexit... at least the new 4x4 is rolling on.  Choice is good (but its never a G)

prwales
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

The current G class has nothing incommon with the w460, similar visuals but it is no longer a practical utilitarian vehicle, too luxurious, too much electical gimmickery far to expensive as well. This is the earlier models hold their value, their lack of complexity is appealing, after the zombie apocalypse its the old diesel w460 that can run on chip fat and will survive an EMP will be the vehicle to have.

If this new truck is basic, robust, reliable, and well priced it will find a market

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?
It would seem that, despite protestations to the contrary, INEOS felt unable to leave B****t out of their strategic equation. Despite having "new" (ten year old) mechanicals if, as PRW comments, the Grenadier proves reliable I would be very seriously interested. It will come with bung holes in the footwells to drain the water after a hose out. That thinking appeals to me. We have just had to update our ordinary car as the gizmology was beginning to fail (expensively) on the previous one which had fewer than 85k cared for miles on it. The new car has electrically driven folding mirrors. Why? Sooner or later they will expensively fail.
prwales
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

My wifes Golf 6 is smitten with electrical problems, very frustrating as its not a bad car at all, too much gadgetry though, who really needs esp or even abs on our clogged roads where average speeds rarely exceed 50 mph. 

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Unless you move to the 3rd world, no getting away from  electronics in modern cars, sure the Ineos will have more than its fair share, but the new Defender definitely seems way over the top with gimmicks 

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Totally agree.  Even 460's have electrics and sensors.  I can repeat the conclusion I had before - electronics is surprisingly robust.  The issue is electics for luxuries, and electrics which kill the car when they fail.

If a luxury fails because of electrics, then you are no worse off than without.  Some obvious exceptions such as electirc windows, seats etc where there is no manual alternative!   It's the expensive ECU and engine/emissions monitoring that can get you and kill the car.  But really they are about as reliable as the physical components in the same spaces and normally cause an engine light rather than failure to keep going.  And they do actually help to prevent damage and tell you what is wearing out.

So Ineos, or G, the electrics will be there.   There is a certain charm to driving a Morris Minor or a 460 with the no frills basics, but I've moved to have both!  I still don't do much myself on the 460 though.

 

Theo
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

G-Wagen = Geländewagen

Theo
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Pistonhead wrote:

"Re: Is the INEOS a G ?"

Depenandant on what your definition of a "G" is.

The "G" is an abbriviation of Geländer which has several meanings, one of those is "rails" - I suppose the association here is the ladder frame of the vehicle? Originally, I was told by a German it meant Cross-country vehicle.

 

G-Wagen = Geländewagen

Jdring
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Grenadier (with a 'G') is getting there:

https://www.facebook.com/INEOSGrenadier/?utm_source=Salesforce&utm_mediu...

There is a competition to contribute a colour scheme and design.  I think something that highlights the nods to the G would be a good idea.

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

They should have a guess the price competition! 

Jdring
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Looks like we're not seeing it released until next year now. Maybe they should have stuck with Wales.

https://mol.im/a/9570707

They also mention benchmarking it on the Schockl, without mentioning the G they try to match.

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?
Grenadier production now delayed until July '22. Not sure that Hambach site is holding things back. There seems to be a worldwide dearth of computery chips stalling production of computer reliant gadgety vehicles. Our G-W 460 isn't bothered; our over complicated VW Tiguan could be.
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Saw the  pictures, resembles a G far more than a Land Rover? Don't believe the quoted prices sure£50 plus

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

This is more of a LR, The G wagons are too smart compared to this.

The G is a G in my eyes

prwales
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

The little tweaks to a basic 2 box design make it look busy, The crash test doesn't look great either

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?
Hello, P.R.W. Where can we see the crash test, please? I continue to be interested in this project. If it comes off (?) it could become a G for non footballers/HipHop stars. Just a thought! ATB, Nick.
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

its in the link https://mol.im/a/9570707

If I'm being unkind I think the INEOS looks like the Indian made Gurkha

Image result for indian made 4x4 Gurkha

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

That looks worse than this amazing cardboard (working) G

https://youtu.be/kwkUy372rIU

 

Nick123
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?
prwales wrote:

its in the link https://mol.im/a/9570707

If I'm being unkind I think the INEOS looks like the Indian made Gurkha

Image result for indian made 4x4 Gurkha

Ha! Ha! Thanks for that. The looks are very similar to... a genuine LandRover, a legendary G-Wagen, a fun Jimny and various others. As far as I can see the Grenadier falls short of a Five Star NCAP result because it won't have Lane Assist and Automated Braking. That's fine by me. They are disabled on our ordinary computer overloaded car. If I feel I need them I shouldn't be driving, imho. We'll see what comes of it all - eventually.
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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

I saw the Grenadier up close at Goodwood yesterday.  The question about whether it's a G is really significant.  It's been billed as the Defender replacement that LR should be building but since Steyr is supporting the engineering on the Schockl, and it apparently has a ladder chassis and 3 diff locks, I shouldn't have been surprised that in the metal it has the stance and overhangs of a G, and with its black 6-stud steel wheels and off-road tyres it certainly looks the part.  The body leans heavily on the old Defender's styling, but is different including asymmetric rear doors like the 75 series Land Cruisers and older Isuzu Troopers, more upright sides, and as noted the rear overhang is not that of the old 110. I'd say the bonnet looks like the new G's too.  The interior (through the window only) looks like it is dominated by the centre stack, and compared to the pre 2019 G that stack looks like it might be a bit too much and maybe will leave things crowded.  However, to answer the question a G to me needs to be a Merc/Steyr but with the new G heading so far upmarket is the challenge not just one for LR but that the Grenadier is also more true to the original G than the new one is?  I do like the Grenadier.  I wish it was being built in Wales though.

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

I have been watching a few videos on YouTube of the development of the Grenadier and to me it looks like a cross between a G and a Defender.  Very surprised they are coming out with a diesel and petrol version and not a hybrid or electric version. 

 

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

G-Barry wrote:

I have been watching a few videos on YouTube of the development of the Grenadier and to me it looks like a cross between a G and a Defender.  Very surprised they are coming out with a diesel and petrol version and not a hybrid or electric version. 

 

The script is that infernal combustion engines (BMW B57 and B58) will get them off the blocks. They are conferring with Hyundai re. hydrogen cell technology. I think that I would be happy with the tried, tested and reputedly reliable B57.

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Re: Is the INEOS a G ?

Interior looks great,  a bit like the G Professional,  everything most people would want, but sure price will be very far north of the 40k quoted? 60???